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30 August 2010 @ 06:32 pm
Famous Fanfiction  
From a conversation with pj1228: What do you think is the most famous fanfiction story in FK, or is that not an applicable idea at all?  In this case, the "most famous story" would be that which is most widely known for positive reasons.  (The most infamous story would be the most widely known for negative reasons; let's not go there.)  For example, if we could ask everyone in the fandom to list, off the top of their heads, ten stories no newbie should miss (regardless of faction), the one mentioned most often could presumably be considered the most famous.

I suggested "False Heart" (PG) by Susan and "Physical Therapy" (NC-17) by Ophelia as the leading candidates for fame.  However, PJ was unacquainted with either of them, which blew my mind and perhaps also torpedoed my contention.

Of course "best" and "favorite" are each in their own ways much more important and worthwhile than merely "famous."  (Please share your recommendations at any time!)  But knowing what we share in common is also of interest.

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Ith: Forever Knight - Familyithildyn on August 31st, 2010 02:01 am (UTC)
I know I must have read False Heart, but I don't remember it, Physical Therapy I would have to say is at least infamous [g] (in a good way).
Amy R.: IBbrightknightie on September 1st, 2010 02:25 am (UTC)
False Heart is always worth rereading, if you ever feel in the mood for some classic FK fanfic. "Physical Therapy," as you say, has notoriety. ~g~
skieswideopen: FK: Janetteskieswideopen on August 31st, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
It's been so long since I was active in FK fandom, I don't remember what I thought of as the major stories. I don't seem to have many saved to my hard drive, either, which surprises me--I thought I read more than that. Though as a IB/Ravenette, I think a lot of the popular fic didn't interest me.
Amy R.: Janettebrightknightie on September 1st, 2010 02:37 am (UTC)
If you do have any saved to your hard drive that you'd like to mention someday, please let me know. I'm always looking for recommendations of high-quality FK stories I haven't yet encountered! (Or that I have encountered but have forgotten.)

There have definitely been times when Janette barely clung to recurring roles in the bulk of fanfiction, edged out, in my opinion, by the dominance of N&N and UF stories, and by a tendency for gen stories to be set in third season or post-series. It was troubling; after all, removing Janette simplifies the overall story in unfortunate ways, limiting possibilities and themes. But that trend has waned as well as waxed. In the small output of FK fanfiction currently, Janette seems very well represented. (The third-season characters, by contrast, seem almost to have vanished.)

Did you know that I lean IB? That is, among the major couple factions, that's my choice. (I have some preferences among the obscure pairings, but they never come up. ~g~)
skieswideopen: FK: Janetteskieswideopen on September 3rd, 2010 01:06 am (UTC)
The dominance of N&N and UF is what I remember from when I was more active in FK fandom, but I'm glad that Janette has been well represented recently. (I did notice that she seemed to come up a lot during the exchange ficathon. And also that the third season characters didn't, which is a little sad, but as you noted, it's hard to have both.)

I didn't know you leaned IB! Your more obscure pairing preferences...Urs? With someone? I should probably check your ficathon sign-up to see.

ETA: I just read through all the comments that came after mine. I'm sure I've read "All the Rest is Silence," though I no longer recall what it was about. But the title is definitely familiar (and triggers positive feelings), and I think I'll have to go track it down again. That's still the only one I recognize, though.

Edited at 2010-09-03 01:10 am (UTC)
Amy R.: IBbrightknightie on September 4th, 2010 02:42 pm (UTC)
>"I didn't know you leaned IB!"

The tag of "A Fate Worse Than Death," when Janette expresses that she hopes Nick achieves his dream because it is his dream, regardless of her stand on the issue or, implicitly, what it will cost her, means a lot to me in considering the popular relationships. Lacroix, throughout, and Natalie, by a certain point, need Nick to be someone other than who he is. Granted that Janette would prefer him to change, they need him to change. She can accept.

First-season is far and away my favorite and I would prefer that Lacroix had stayed dead, but that one little touch is my favorite contribution from second season's changes: the increase in Janette's acceptance spurred by Lacroix's living presence nudging the spectrum around Nick.

Of course this is a very Knightie approach to IBness. :-) What's your approach, as a Raven?

>"Your more obscure pairing preferences...Urs? With someone?

I have a deep fondness for Nick/Urs, the jokingly named "Les Miserables" faction that, as far as I know, no one ever seriously subscribed to or pursued. It's hard to posit it seriously as an approach; there's no body of fanfiction or discussion to back it up, and of course the characters barely interact on screen.

Still, I believe that there is such rich possibility there, in what they have in common, in the way their needs could complement each other and make them each stronger together than they are alone.

Some people have protested that Urs isn't like other women Nick has loved, but I submit that she is a creative artist (like Emily, Marian, Sylvaine, Erica), and that while she isn't bright (as Natalie, Janette, Sofia, Erica are), neither was Amalia nor apparently Alyssa nor Sylvaine, and she is possessed of great compassion and an ethical code (like Nick). I imagine that Urs can go one step beyond Janette's acceptance of Nick's dream, into understanding and embrace of it.

I also enjoy Nick/Emily, most of all, and Nick/Marian and Nick/Erica, as far as they can go. These characters seem to have been designed for Nick, to fit with him, but of course they are all dead or amnesiac by the ends of their episodes. :-)

Separately, I have a thing about Nick's sister. This leads me to be a Faithful (Lacroix/Fleur) on the basis that, canonically, she wants him, so I tend to give him to her. :-)

>"I'm sure I've read "All the Rest is Silence," though I no longer recall what it was about."

If you ever want it, here's Dorothy's FK fanfic page. That series is "All the Rest is Silence," "Silent Echoes" and "Out of the Silence." It's very good. Indeed, most everything by Dorothy is good! Though you'll probably want to skip the "Somewhere" N&N series, for your own tastes.
skieswideopen: FK: Janetteskieswideopen on September 9th, 2010 03:44 am (UTC)
Thank you for the link! I will take a look at Dorothy's stories again.

I think as a Ravenette, my approach to IB started out somewhat similar to your approach to Fleur and Lacroix: Janette wanted him, and I was inclined to give her what she wanted. I'm also a bit of a romantic, and so I'm inclined to favour a relationship that has endured (on and off) for so many centuries. And...I see the potential for the two of them to make each other better people. That's a more difficult thing for Nick & Natalie to manage, because Nick tends to dismiss Natalie when she says something he doesn't want to hear, on the grounds that she can't understand his situation. He can't do that with Janette. (He can't do that with Lacroix either, but Lacroix's idea of what would make Nick a better person doesn't really line up with my ideas.)

I can see the appeal of Nick/Urs. Urs doesn't seem to get much attention, which is too bad because an exploration of how she maintained her moral code over the years could be very interesting.
greerwatsongreerwatson on August 31st, 2010 06:11 am (UTC)
"I suggested "False Heart" (PG) by Susan and "Physical Therapy" (NC-17) by Ophelia as the leading candidates for fame. However, PJ was unacquainted with either of them,...."

I don't think I'd read them before, either. On the other hand, I'd immediately assume everyone knew Dorothy Elggren's "All The Rest Is Silence".

The truth is, of course, that there are a lot of FK stories; and, inevitably, that is going to mean a fair number of good ones. To some extent—especially if you're a relative newcomer to the fandom (and hence browsing archives)—it's a matter of chance which stories you happen on.
greerwatsongreerwatson on August 31st, 2010 10:43 pm (UTC)
Oh, hang on. I just went back and looked at the previous thread. If "False Heart" is the first Dorian story, then I have read it. It's quite good—but it's effect on the fandom at the time must have been quite dramatic for Dorian to have his own faction (as I knew he did/does).
Amy R.: Readsbrightknightie on September 1st, 2010 02:43 am (UTC)
>"If "False Heart" is the first Dorian story, then I have read it."

Yep, that's the one! False Heart (with its sequel, Kind Soul) is the top story I would personally recommend to any newbie, saying, "This is what FK fanfiction should be."
Amy R.: N&Nbrightknightie on September 1st, 2010 02:51 am (UTC)
Dorothy would have been my next choice if I'd listed a third candidate for probable fame at this time in the fandom. But perhaps curiously, I wouldn't have guessed any of her "Silence" stories to have particular fame, though they are excellent and I admire and enjoy them. I would have instead guessed that her "Somehow"/"Somewhere" N&Ner fantasies (which are good, but in my opinion are not remotely her most outstanding work) would have greater fame.

>"it's a matter of chance which stories you happen on."

:-) When I was a raw newbie, I asked for recommendations of the best stories people knew, got them, and have been trying to pass them on ever since. :-) I lucked out, I know.
greerwatsongreerwatson on September 1st, 2010 03:08 am (UTC)
Whenever someone outside fandom says to me that they can't understand why people write fan fiction ("Why don't they make up their own stories?"), it is always "All The Rest Is Silence" that I describe. And they usually get it.

Well, at least, they say they get it...sort of...with that odd look in their eye that says they get the motivation but still think it's a total waste of time. But they think all fan stuff is a waste of time, so that's par for the course.
greerwatsongreerwatson on September 1st, 2010 03:20 am (UTC)
Oh, yes, and it (and its sequels) were recommended by abby82 on crack_van last year.
PJ1228pj1228 on September 1st, 2010 07:15 pm (UTC)
In the meantime I did read "Physical Therapy". While reading it, I remembered vaguely that I had read it before, indeed. For some reason though, I seem to have discarded it from memory. Although I can see why it is famous in the NN faction, it didn't work so well for me as Nick didn't get to bite. ;)

I also remembered reading "False Heart" years ago, but I didn't like the character of Dorian, which is odd since he is obviously so popular throughout the fandom. I will read it again, just to see if my view has changed during the years.

Back to your topic of discussion, what stories would I consider famous: as already pointed out, it depends on the definition. If I take your definition and list the stories I would recommend someone who is new to fanfic, I would choose those stories that fill the gaps left by the episodes. These include
- Pre-Dark Knight Stories
- stories set between S1 and S2
- stories set between S2 and S3
- post-Last Knight stories

Another way to define "famous" would be to list those stories that I found most inspiring to begin writing by myself. Logically those are the very first stories I've ever read. Among them are Kathy Whelton's Jenny stories and a four part NN series that begins after "Last Knight". Also Molly Schneider's UF series which is very famous within the UF faction.

I have a feeling I should list more, but that would require deeper digging into my files, for which I currently don't have the time.

I'm sorry, I'm obviously not good at remembering story titles and associating them with the respective plot. I suppose I've read Dorothy Elgren's "All the rest is silence", but I would have to look it up to be sure.
Amy R.: Guest Starbrightknightie on September 2nd, 2010 03:30 am (UTC)
>"Although I can see why it is famous in the NN faction, it didn't work so well for me as Nick didn't get to bite. ;)">"Although I can see why it is famous in the NN faction, it didn't work so well for me as Nick didn't get to bite. ;)"

And it doesn't work for me, personally, as well as I believe it works for others, because that sort of thing is just not my style from the other side, as well as me not being an N&Ner. :-) But I think it's very well crafted and admirably written.

>"but I didn't like the character of Dorian, ... I will read it again, just to see if my view has changed during the years."

Hmmm. I don't much "like" Dorian, myself, either; he's the antagonist, after all. However, I love the stories in which he appears! I'll be interested to learn what you think after you reread (of course you'd have to go to the sequel, Kind Soul, to get to the Lacroix content, if you were interested in that).

>"If I take your definition and list the stories I would recommend someone who is new to fanfic"

I apologize; I expressed myself poorly. That is not my definition of fame. Something that is "famous" is "widely known."

I meant the question to be a backdoor to discovering what stories are most widely known. I thought that the straightforward question "What stories are most widely known?" would not yeild results as useful as a subtler question, "What stories should every newbie read?", eliciting the names of stories that people remember, because none of us know what the others may know and fame would be broad-based by definition.

Possibly it was a poorly crafted approach.

I'm interested by your approach to fanfiction as being mainly about filling in the blanks! My approach would be to show a newbie, first, stories that could have been episodes, with a cop plot, flashback and personal struggle. I suppose that's because I come to fanfiction with the feeling that there was just never enough canon. :-)

Should I look up Molly Schneider's UF stories? I don't believe I'm familiar with them. I tend to read UF only on recommendation, or by authors I already know to be skilled from their gen stories.

ETA: Something is peculiar with the comment function. My apologies for the double post.

Edited at 2010-09-02 03:33 am (UTC)
PJ1228pj1228 on September 2nd, 2010 08:45 pm (UTC)
> My approach would be to show a newbie, first, stories that could have been episodes, with a cop plot, flashback and personal struggle. <

In that case I would recommend reading the entire virtual 4th season.

>Should I look up Molly Schneider's UF stories? <

They're a feast for UFers, but I wouldn't recommend them to someone who hasn't had much experience in reading UF yet. If you decide to tackle UF, I would recommend something less explicit to begin with and work forward from there.

Amy R.: Nick Solemnbrightknightie on September 3rd, 2010 09:10 pm (UTC)
>"In that case I would recommend reading the entire virtual 4th season."

Another interesting difference of opinion. Ah, FK -- so many opinions, so few episodes! :-)

I'm personally so much happier in the first season and hiatus timeframes that my instinct would be to recommend stories written and/or set then. For obvious reasons, this is not compatible with the views of most Cousins, and of course with the third-season characters, so perhaps it is unfair to the scope of FK. But so would be a confinement to third-season or its aftermath. There's a vitality to the hiatus that I adore, and I'd be eager to share it with our theoretical newbie.

>"someone who hasn't had much experience in reading UF yet. If you decide to tackle UF,"

I feel somewhat mischaracterized by this description. I feel that I bravely tackled reading UF content, and that I simply found it not to my taste as a Knightie.

I read (past tense) nearly everything James posted, and plenty of what Leslie posted, as well as some other authors. I was on forkni-l for the argument over naming the UF and picking a symbol for it. Although I will never read as large a quantity of UF stories as other stories because the UF approach reconciling Nick to Lacroix does not appeal to me, I hope that I have always been willing to read any FK story recommended to me as particularly skilled, regardless of faction.

>"I would recommend something less explicit to begin with and work forward from there."

Thank you, but story explicitness cannot be a "forward" movement in my opinion as a reader. :-) I truly prefer gen stories when I can get them.

I meant only to inquire whether the stories you had mentioned were particularly good as FK stories, regardless of faction. If they are strictly UF and also explicit, they're not for me. ~shrug~ Thank you for your careful reflection on it, however!