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16 November 2011 @ 07:40 am
FK not eligible for Yuletide?  
[Correction: FK is eligible! skieswideopen (here) and [personal profile] havocthecat (here) kindly explained that I misunderstood.]

Do I understand correctly (from this list) that Forever Knight is not eligible for Yuletide this year?  If so, is FK too big, or did the [community profile] last_writes person who promised to nominate it fail, or were there other considerations?  Granted, I was personally not going to write for Yuletide anyway, but I am taken aback and disappointed.

I'm also anxious that nothing seems to be happening with oldschoolfic, which has been my winter exchange while y'all play Yuletide.  No exchanges for me this season?  Ah, well.  It's not like I shouldn't be doing other things!

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skieswideopen: FK: Nick & Janetteskieswideopen on November 16th, 2011 03:53 pm (UTC)
No, Forever Knight is on the official list. And according to the running records, at least two people nominated it, giving us a good range of characters.

ETA: Actually, according to the other official list, there must have been at least three nominations. The eligible characters are Aristotle (Forever Knight), Amanda Cohen, Don Schanke, Feliks Twist, Janette Ducharme, Joe Reese, Lucien LaCroix, Natalie Lambert, and Nicholas Knight.

Last edit, I promise. The spreadsheet you linked to is divided into four groups of pages, linked at the top. The drop down list only shows fandoms for the set of pages you're on. The FK nominations can be found on pages 9-16 and 17-24.

Edited at 2011-11-16 04:02 pm (UTC)
Amy R.: Thanksbrightknightie on November 16th, 2011 04:13 pm (UTC)
Thank you very much for the correction, and all the information! I'll edit my post.

(I didn't know that they limited the characters. That's... unfun.)
Havochavocthecat on November 16th, 2011 04:16 pm (UTC)
They do every year! I think it's because they don't want to have to deal with the huge list of potential characters in some fandoms, and so they ask you to explicitly list a certain number that you want to write/read for.
Amy R.: Tracybrightknightie on November 16th, 2011 04:38 pm (UTC)
Does that mean that if someone requests a story about Reese, who is on the list, the writer cannot write Tracy in the story, because she is not? Or does it mean only that no one may request Tracy?

(I apologize for being backward on this. Yuletide has always seemed overwhelming to me... and, as well, some people I love have reviled it as inherently discriminatory since it began, so I took their lead and stayed away... ~shrug~)
Havochavocthecat on November 16th, 2011 06:21 pm (UTC)
If one requests a story about Reese, who is on the list, Reese must be in the story. The writer, however, can choose to include Tracy as well, should the writer wish to do so.

If one requests a story, because Tracy is not on the list, one cannot request Tracy. Asking for Tracy in the optional details is considered somewhat gauche, because the writer has expressed a preference for a character other than Tracy.

It's not being backward if you're asking questions on a challenge you're not familiar with! And you are, of course, always free to hold your own opinion on a challenge being discriminatory or not. :)
Amy R.: Nick Solemnbrightknightie on November 16th, 2011 06:59 pm (UTC)
>"It's not being backward if you're asking questions on a challenge you're not familiar with! And you are, of course, always free to hold your own opinion on a challenge being discriminatory or not. :)"

Thank you.

I'm afraid that I must now apologize for carelessly conjoining my apology for ignorance about the Yuletide game with my statement that I avoid the game because it antagonizes people I love. Of course those are separate. Naturally, I make no apology for the latter.
skieswideopen: FK: Janette smilingskieswideopen on November 16th, 2011 04:27 pm (UTC)
They've always limited the number of characters participants can request in a given fandom, which is reasonable as the writer has to include all of the requested characters in their story, and trying to wrangle eight or ten characters in a single 1000 word story could be a bit of a challenge. Or, reading the comment above, maybe I'm wrong and they've always limited character selection in both directions. Which perhaps makes a certain amount of sense given that they have to match on characters as well as fandom.

Edited at 2011-11-16 04:28 pm (UTC)
Amy R.: Janettebrightknightie on November 16th, 2011 04:43 pm (UTC)
Yes, limits in service of matching do make a great deal of sense in this massive multi-fandom endeavor!

However, limits confining the final story -- for example, having to write a story with Reese that must omit Tracy, or a Janette story that forbids her employees -- would be peculiar. That can't be how... Yes, if I'm curious, I should just go read up, like a sensible and responsible person! :-)
skieswideopen: FK: Nick & Janetteskieswideopen on November 16th, 2011 04:53 pm (UTC)
LOL...that would be a challenge! But no, the writers aren't limited to the characters nominated or requested. The way it works is that all requested character MUST be included, and other characters can be included as needed. Generally I think authors start with the required characters, and then work off of the details in the optional details/yuletide letter (when there is one). So someone might only request Nick--making him the only mandatory element--but then say they'd love to see something about him at work, with either of his partners or any of the captains, and then the writer (if they chose to use that prompt) could decide which characters to include. (They could also throw in a visit from Lacroix or Janette if they chose. It's really whatever the writer wants to do as long as the requested characters are included.)
Athelas K. Weedmalinaldarose on November 16th, 2011 04:31 pm (UTC)
Hm, yes, shouldn't we be writing already for oldschoolfic?
Amy R.: Gamesbrightknightie on November 16th, 2011 04:50 pm (UTC)
That is what I'm thinking! :-)

I don't know whether the Oldschoolfic mod has perhaps had something happen in her life requiring her attention, or whether she is perhaps discouraged by the chorus of players who consider Oldschoolfic an also-ran to NaNo and Yuletide, and is planning to relocate the event entirely into the new year. I've used US Thanksgiving weekend to work on my Oldschoolfic story for a few years now, enough that I almost consider it traditional. :-)
Athelas K. Weedmalinaldarose on November 17th, 2011 11:30 am (UTC)
I've never done Yuletide, and NaNo...well, I won't do it again without a plan, and by the time I remember that it's November in a few days, it's too late.
greerwatsongreerwatson on November 16th, 2011 09:15 pm (UTC)
As one of the people who nominated FK....

My sister has done Yuletide for three or four years now, and loved it every time (and does pinch hits and last-minute ficlets, as well as her main assigned story). So I decided to do it myself this year. Of course I nominated FK!

In the past, people could nominate quite a few different fandoms; but this year, to limit the number of "leftovers" that people never actually requested stories for, they only allowed people to pick three. This immediately caused a flurry of concern, the more so since they also limited people to picking four characters per fandom, and (this was also new) were unable to let you know what things other people had already nominated.

Someone therefore started a post on yuletide for people to list the things they planned to nominate, so I was able to get together with one other person to ensure that we could coordinate what we asked for and didn't duplicate any of the characters. Unfortunately, the third person nominating FK must have missed the post, and only one of her characters was a different one. In the end, therefore, several major characters (notably Tracy and Vachon, but also Screed, Stonetree, Urs, and Grace) didn't make the list.

As others have pointed out, the rules only constrain the characters you can request (i.e. insist be included in the story). It does not stop the writer putting in more characters!

Sadly, there is a whole thing about not adding additional, optional write-in requests, unless they're worded in very general terms. "I love all the cop/vampire characters, so the more you put in the better," would probably pass muster; but "I really want a Nick/Urs story, but no one nominated Urs," would not. (Why? Because if you wanted it that much, you darn well should have included Urs among your own nominations, that's why!)

In fandoms with many characters, this year's limitations did put people in a terrible bind.

In the end, in FK, I made a point of nominating minor characters I thought I might want to request; but I only felt free to do so because I knew that someone else had decided to nominate Nick, Nat, and LaCroix. However, in another fandom I belong to, where people coordinated to be sure that all that author's books got covered, I was the only person nominating one particular book. I felt constrained to fill up my character list with the principals so that they'd be available for other people to request.

As I wrote in a comment on yuletide:
The character restrictions put the reader and writer in me in conflict, especially when it's a fandom with a lot of characters, or one with a variety of characters who have little canonical interaction with except with the hero.

As a writer, I want all the main characters in a fandom listed so that people have an easy choice—especially those who are scrolling down the list looking around for a fourth fandom for that final slot.

On the other hand, I may personally want to
request a dear-to-my-heart rare pairing or a fic that focuses on a minor supporting character.

If I only have four character slots to fill, which set am I supposed to go for? The rare pair that I want you to write for me? Or the broad range that I want available for
you to pick from?

Sure, if you know other people who are planning to nominate the same fandom, then you can get together to coordinate your requests. But that's the big IF, isn't it?
A lot of people have felt this pinch! It seems to have been a fairly common complaint this year.
Amy R.: Castbrightknightie on November 17th, 2011 09:45 pm (UTC)
There is certainly some irony in mechanisms that give, in Yuletide itself, the largest fandoms the most advantages. ~wry~